INTERVIEW WITH BRUCE MCTAVISH, PART 2

TL: Let’s talk about some of the big names that you’ve refereed over the years here in the Philippines. Other than Manny Pacquiao, who comes to mind?

BM: Fel Pedransa, who people today wouldn’t know who he was. He was a product of this area(Angeles City). Speedy Santos. Guzman, he fought Hector Thompson who’d fought twice for the world title and beat him in the Philippines. There were so many. Kabato, (Luisito) Espinosa, Dodie Boy Penalosa, Rolando Navarette. Navarette was one of the rudest, crudest fighters in history. I remember one time he spit in the face of an Australian guy when I was giving the instructions in the middle of the ring.   I saw the Australian years later, and he said he lost the fight right there. Those were tough days.

TL: Of all of those, who would be your favorite boxer?

BM: Depending on what style you like it’s either Navarette or Espinosa. If you want to see a scientific boxer it’s Espinosa. But a lot of people didn’t realize that Espinosa in his prime  also had a punch. He could knock a guy out. Tall lean and man. He was a little bit like Tommy Hearns.  In fact he came from a jr. bantamweight up to fighting virtually as a middleweight by the time of the end of his career. Where as Navarette was a tough, meet-you-around-the-corner-in-a-side-street-and-get-it-on.

TL: Why have Filipinos never really taken to scientific boxers? They love the blood and guts guys. They don’t care if you have a nice jab. They just like a guy to come in and tear his opponent’s head off.

TL: You’re a thousand percent correct. In fact there was a boxer from Angeles, Lito Pena, I had a lot to do with him, helped him worked out in the gym. He was one of the best scientific boxers the Philippines ever had. He was lightweight champion. He fought many times out of Hawaii against top Americans. He fought out of Guam a lot. He was a product of this area. I even put on a fight for him to defend his title. The crowd didn’t like him at all. In fact they would virtually boo him because he looked too pretty. And he was the champion for a number of years as a lightweight. And he couldn’t draw anyone to go to his fights. It’s just the nature of the country. The people just want to see a lot of action.  They don’t like the scientific boxer.

TL: Which brings us to Manny Pacquiao. He started out as a great blood and guts fighter. He’s everything Filipinos could ever want isn’t he?

BM: Yes, but he’s lucky that he started off that way because right now the way he fights he’s getting more to the style that I like. I’m the pure scientist in boxing. I’m the boring one. I like to see the science. Pacquiao is getting back to the style I like. He’s already made his reputation so he’s still going to be popular even though he’s now more scientific.

TL: You’ve refereed many of Pacquiao’s fights over the years. What did you think of him when he was first starting out?

BM: There’s certain people in life that come along. You get a guy like Muhammad Ali. He’s a freak of nature. You could never get anyone to learn how to box by watching Muhammad Ali. There’s only one Muhammad Ali. Then you get Prince Hamed. You definitely  wouldn’t want to teach anyone the way he fights. He was a freak of nature as a boxer goes. Then you come along with Manny Pacquiao. Every now and then you find a diamond in the rough and it turns out it’s the greatest diamond in the world. And you  got the Ali’s, the Prince Hameds, and then you’ve got the Manny Pacquiaos. It’s something special. You can’t train them to be like that. They’re just a freak of nature.

TL: You said you can’t train them but…

BM: You can polish the diamond. You can’t train them.

TL: Well how big a role has Freddie Roach played in the advancement and improvement of Manny Pacquiao?

BM: What a lot of people don’t realize, and not to detract from Freddie, but in the last couple of years Freddie has 7 or 8 contenders and champions, and they’ve all lost. So there’s something…it’s like a marriage. I know a lot of good friends who’ve had three or four marriages and end up losing. And some guys have a perfect marriage and it just fits. And Freddie Roach and Manny Pacquiao have been an ideal couple.

TL: How do you account for what Manny did against Oscar de la Hoya? What did he do to overcome  Oscar’s advantages? Or did Oscar come in completely flat?

BM: All of the above. Oscar de la Hoya wasn’t there. I don’t know who that was that night. That’s not to detract from Manny. Even if the real de la Hoya had  come in, with Manny’s speed and right hand that night, he probably would’ve won. That’s just the great athlete that he is. And it takes him 8 or 9 weeks to get in shape. In the old days a guy would take ten or 12 weeks to get in shape. But Manny’s an outstanding athlete.

TL: You mentioned before that if it wasn’t for Manny Pacquiao, Philippine boxing would be in the doldrums. A lot of people would say that Manny Pacquiao has kicked open the door for younger  up and coming boxers in the Philippines and he’s helped get the interest of promoters in the US and other places to pay attention to the Philippines. Is Philippine boxing resurgent?

BM: There’s definitely a resurgence. And it’s exciting. We’ve got Bernabe Concepcion fighting within the week. We’ve got Donnie Nietes fighting next month in Mexico. Just had Juanito Rubillar come back from Mexico. We have the comeback of A.J. Banal and Rey Bautista coming up. There’s a lot going on.

TL: Who do you see out there in Philippine boxing who can become a memorable boxer, a hall of fame boxer? Is it Nonito Donaire? Concepcion?

BM: Well Donaire right now is having trouble with management and training. I don’t know how bad a distraction that will be. But I believe he will be fighting in March on a twin bill in Manila. Brian Viloria will be on the card. The next month after that Gerry Penalosa will be fighting. So we’ll know by March who will be on the scene. We’ll leave that on the table for now.

TL: What do you make of the proliferation of alphabet belts? Here in the Philippines and around Asia it’s particularly bad in that every single fight seems to be for some kind of regional title. To me as the number of belts keeps getting bigger and bigger, it dilutes the meaning of a championship. What is your opinion?

TL: I don’t look upon it in a bad way because it gives the young fighters a chance to earn money. If they waited around for the WBC or WBA, or the IBF or WBO—the top four that make any sense—to get a crack at them they’re not earning any money. By getting a chance in the regional titles and some of the other alphabet soup ones they get a chance to have action, get a little bit of recognition and earn some money. Especially in the Philippines the money for the regional belts is good money for these boys. American people might laugh at the purses, but for these boys here, they get a bit of income, they can support their family, they can put their brother or sister through school. So I look at it from an economical point of view. I don’t look upon professional boxing as a sport. I look at it as a profession. And I know you believe in one title one weight class. But we live in a realistic world, not an idealistic world. Boxing ideally I’d like one champion, one division and no organizations. But that’s being idealistic, not realistic.

TL: It’s not that I don’t think that shouldn’t be regional titles. But what is happening is that managers will take a fighter who is a promising fighter and they find a stiff in Thailand to come to the Philippines for a regional belt and the Thai will drop in one round, four rounds or five rounds. I’ve seen so many of these. And thus the title isn’t worth anything. What I’d like to see is fights that mean something. It’s ok that fights are for a regional title. But a regional title means nothing unless it’s a good quality fight.  What is your opinion of the nature of the match ups being made in Thailand and the Philippines and other places in Asia where managers are getting fighters that they know are going to drop just to put wins on the records of their fighters?

BM: That’s where we need to go back to the local commissions. Local commissions have to authorize a fight or they can say the fight is not on. For example, there was a WBC International fight that was being suggested and Mauro Betti, the president, turned it down, in conjunction of with GAB chairman Eric Buhain, a Filipino fighter against one of the top Thais because they said he’s not qualified to fight a fighter of that level. I think that’s getting back to what you’re saying. That way we’ll have better fights, and we’re protecting the individual. I think that’s excellent.

TL: One of the things you’ve always talked about is how in the ring as a referee, you place the health and safety of these kids as your number one priority. Does it upset you when you see obvious mismatches?

BM: I find it disgusting. We’re talking about human lives here. I don’t care if both the boys are average as long as they are about the same standard. If you get a guy with 43 fights 43 wins, fighting a guy with one win and 9 losses, it’s disgusting to even put him in the ring. It goes back to the local commissions.

TL: A guy like Rey Bautista. There were such high hopes for him. Everyone was saying he could be the next Manny Pacquiao. Apparently he didn’t go in against the best opposition. He was able to get a break, however, through his management’s connections through Oscar de la Hoya. And he got his break in that way. Was he moved too fast, too soon?

BM: Who knows? He’s one of the greatest technique and skillful boxers the Philippines has ever had. He comes from a great training camp, great management. Tony Aldegeur takes care of his boys more than any trainer and manager in the world. Bautista, Banal, Z Gorres, all the ALA boys are so fortunate to have such an outstanding stable. I don’t know.  It’s not for me to judge as a referee where they should go. That’s up to their management. I have nothing but praise for anyone that comes out of ALA gym. They’re well taken care of, trained well, fed and looked after. It’s a great organization.

To be continued…

Read Part 1

Read Part 3